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Video Games and Violence

An argument that isn't about the foolishness of one or more people? Awesome, count me in! Here goes:
kpwbo said:
Basically, what you are saying is that players can recognise what's right and what's wrong, so they won't mistake fiction for reality. If they can't, then their parents would prevent them from playing the game.

1) While this might be true for kids, it isn't for adults. When an adult still can't differentiate between right and wrong, then nobody can stop him from playing a violent game, as he does not necessarily live with his parents anymore.
2) Kids, particularly teenagers, always find ways to have what they want, even if it is illegal for their age. One example of this is alcohol. Therefore, rating games will not necessarily prevent kids from playing them.
3) Parents can't always be there to stop their kids from playing violent games, like when they are playing at their older friends' homes.

kpwbo

1. Those are mentally ill and/or fundamentally evil people, so they don't really count. Besides, they'll see the same violence on TV and the like.

2. Correct, they'll find ways to play it whatever you do, but that's where the irresponsibility of parents kicks in. If a parent flat out ignores the fact a kid plays an extremely violent, gory and almost disturbing game, they're partially to blame.

3. If they're playing at a friend's home, the parent of that friend should fulfill the same role as the person's own parent, and if that doesn't happen, it's less relevant than when a teen plays it at home, considering they're exposed for a way shorter amount of time.

Now go, counter my arguments! Give me something to think about!
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"Freedom cannot be forced on others. It must be earned for oneself." ~ IF Prototype LQ-84i

lennert123 said:
i would say, it depends from game to game, it's true that you can get more violent when ya play a war game and then suddenly your father puts off the television, ur reaction will be lots more intense, that im sure. But when ya play those games i would suggest to parents to treat you otherwise, instead of putting tv immediately off they should ask: "darling, within 5 more mins, ya gotta quit".
By doing that there won't be any violence at all, you just need to treaten the person otherwise.

About the sub-questions:
- war games
- kid games for kids, war games for 12-16 year old, depends how intense the games are.
- and last question: there shouldn't be higher restrictions on selling video games, if ur very young ur parents buy it for you, if they do not agree you never will be able to play. So even when you would buy the game without ur parents knowing it, they will see it when ur playing it and pick it off and return it.

I think it depends because I always play violence games and nothing happens with my attitude because Im not a violent person or something I just know that the things Im doing are wrong also I think it depends of your maturity because an Immature person will always be crazy/angry for something because they dont know what are they doing , they dont think about it before doing it. If my father says its enough for today you have to understand it.
I love burrito bison games :3
====================And HRC of course====================

chrizzel28 said:
An argument that isn't about the foolishness of one or more people? Awesome, count me in! Here goes:

1. Those are mentally ill and/or fundamentally evil people, so they don't really count. Besides, they'll see the same violence on TV and the like.

2. Correct, they'll find ways to play it whatever you do, but that's where the irresponsibility of parents kicks in. If a parent flat out ignores the fact a kid plays an extremely violent, gory and almost disturbing game, they're partially to blame.

3. If they're playing at a friend's home, the parent of that friend should fulfill the same role as the person's own parent, and if that doesn't happen, it's less relevant than when a teen plays it at home, considering they're exposed for a way shorter amount of time.

Now go, counter my arguments! Give me something to think about!

1) What do you exactly mean by "they don't really count" ? Seeing violence on TV is much more passive than doing violent acts like in some video games. As violence is often required to finish the game, players may think that violence is the way to deal with life, and may then act violently (this is not limited to physical violence).

2) Sometimes, kids can hide things so very well that their parents can't know about them, whether they are responsible or not.

3) What if that friend is a still immature adult living alone, and that the kid's parents do know him from a long time, so that they have confidence in him ? Also, if that friend happens to be the kid's best friend, then they can see each other frequently and for a longer period of time, thus making the (possible) influence of violent games more important.

kpwbo
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What do you do when there is an evil you cannot defeat by just means ? Do you stain your hands with evil to destroy evil, or do you remain steadfastly just and righteous even if it means surrendering to evil ?

kpwbo said:
1) What do you exactly mean by "they don't really count" ? Seeing violence on TV is much more passive than doing violent acts like in some video games. As violence is often required to finish the game, players may think that violence is the way to deal with life, and may then act violently (this is not limited to physical violence).

2) Sometimes, kids can hide things so very well that their parents can't know about them, whether they are responsible or not.

3) What if that friend is a still immature adult living alone, and that the kid's parents do know him from a long time, so that they have confidence in him ? Also, if that friend happens to be the kid's best friend, then they can see each other frequently and for a longer period of time, thus making the (possible) influence of violent games more important.

kpwbo

Thanks for the brain food, so here goes:
1. I'm trying to say that mentally ill people should be dealt with in a seperate way (therapy and the like), and should therefore be taken out of the equation. And though I think the magic of videogames is the interactivity of it, I don't think it makes a big difference in this case, they still see the same imagery on TV, perhaps even worse if you get on the wrong channel at the wrong time.

2. I know from experience that this is true, though I believe it's still the responsibility of the parents. If a 4 year old totals their car because he saw how the key goes in and stole the keys, is it the parents' responsibility?

3. Pretty Farfetch'd example, but ok. This implies that the immature adult is a few years older than the teen, and age gaps don't do that well in friendships. And yes, the kid and his best friend would play a lot together, but it's the responsibility of the parents to keep an eye on him or her either way. Besides, how is the kid supposed to know it's bad when the parents ask what the kid was playing at the friend's home? Not easy to keep a secret if you don't know it's a secret.

Now, give me more food for thoughts!
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"Freedom cannot be forced on others. It must be earned for oneself." ~ IF Prototype LQ-84i

I just read this disturbing story today : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2319064/Noah-Crooks-Chilling-911-reveals-13-year-old-boy-admitting-tried-rape-shot-dead-mom-taking-away-video-game.html

Basically, a 13-years-old boy tries to rape his mom and then kills her with a gun (that she bought to him), because she has taken away his Call of Duty game (because of his bad grades in school). He then calls the police and tells them what happened. His lawyer says that he has some sort of mental disorder that makes him violent sometimes.

First, how come this 13-years-old boy can play Call of Duty (a M-rated game) ? You may say that his parents were irresponsible, but that would mean that all teens who play Call of Duty have irresponsible parents (which makes a LOT of irresponsible parents). Still, if that is the case, how can we make parents more responsible ? The ratings don't seem enough... Should we have higher restrictions ?

Second, I don't think his parents knew he had a mental problem. Otherwise, they wouldn't have given him a gun. If they had discovered he has a mental problem before this event, do you think they should have still permitted him to play Call of Duty ?

kpwbo

P.-S. : I know it's difficult, but please do not start a gun control discussion (even if it would be interesting), it is not the subject of this thread.
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What do you do when there is an evil you cannot defeat by just means ? Do you stain your hands with evil to destroy evil, or do you remain steadfastly just and righteous even if it means surrendering to evil ?

sad story but yeah guns.....Just think kids shouldn't have guns......
Own fault of the mother, he should have known already that he can be agressive (i don't believe that that 13 year old kid never was erupting), when you know that ur child can errupt then WHY as MOTHER of a kid do you give it a weapon? O_o
Some people i don't understand, it's irresponsible
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[img]http://gyazo.com/da3515457d0c411a4249f9bc6700786b[img]

Really? It is obvious that the case you mentioned was a special case. If those kind of cases are the real problem, then why not find a solution to deal with those people, rather than the games they play. Like chrizzel said, we shouldn't include people that have mental problems.
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HRC Theme Song (click to enlarge)
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jaany2 said:
Really? It is obvious that the case you mentioned was a special case. If those kind of cases are the real problem, then why not find a solution to deal with those people, rather than the games they play. Like chrizzel said, we shouldn't include people that have mental problems.

^This.

And kids never should have guns in the first place, even in a country as twisted as America. It's irresponsible on a lot of levels, even without propper gun control in place, a parent shouldn't give their kids a killing tool. A lot of parents are, in fact, very irresponsible, but this was one step further. Heck, it was the partially the fault of the parents for letting him play violent games and giving him a gun to boot while he already has agression problems.

Just to be clear, this post wasn't to start about gun control, but mostly about irresponsibility of parents, which is the reason the rating system doesn't work most of the time.
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"Freedom cannot be forced on others. It must be earned for oneself." ~ IF Prototype LQ-84i

chrizzel28 said:
And kids never should have guns in the first place, even in a country as twisted as America.

That sentence made me laugh .

Let's just summarize this the way I usually do: human beings tend to act illogically.
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I know this is an extreme case (hopefully) and that it should be considered differently. What I wanted to point out was the fact that the kid's parents probably weren't aware of his mental problem.

Considering that the kid's parents are reasonable :
If they knew he had a mental problem that can make him violent, they wouldn't have given him a gun.
They gave him a gun.
Therefore, they didn't know he had a mental problem.

Moreover, I also think that his parents were very irresponsible (Who gives his son a gun ? In Africa, people are trying to stop the spread of child soldiers, while in the USA, some are giving theirs guns...).

Let me do a brief summary of our discussion :
1- It is mainly because of the parent's irresponsibility that some children become violent or act violently, not because of the game itself.
2- Mentally ill people shouldn't be considered, as their condition makes them unable to differentiate what it right from what is wrong, what is virtual from what it is real.
3- Rating games isn't enough, as kids always find a way to play inappropriate games for their age.

Then how can we solve this problem ?
- make parents more responsible : very difficult because there are too many parents.
- make M-rated games more difficult to buy : will not solve the issue because of point 3 (I'm currently thinking of a sort of black market for games lol).
- raise awareness about the problem : might make some parents responsible, but it wouldn't be efficient on a long-term (considering it is not propaganda).

What can be done ?

P.-S. : Do you think we should start a gun control discussion in a new topic ?
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What do you do when there is an evil you cannot defeat by just means ? Do you stain your hands with evil to destroy evil, or do you remain steadfastly just and righteous even if it means surrendering to evil ?

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